So you think girls don't fight? Then listen in on what Benson High School girls had to say earlier this week, as Rachel Simmons, a best-selling author on girl bullies, sparked their conversation.

"Guys are more openly aggressive to each other. Girls do it subliminally," one said.

"Girls bring everybody else into it," said another. "It's like five against one. . . . They want to hurt each other more."

And when a girl uses her crafty cruelty to get back at a friend?

"The what ifs, the whys," another girl said. "That will eat you up."

Simmons, the author of "Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls," (Harcourt, $25, 296 pages) spent part of Tuesday morning with about 35 Benson High girls interested in the topic. Simmons knows that she can drop in on almost any group of preteen or teen girls in the nation and tap their knowledge of this silent culture of meanness, which she says has been largely untalked about until recently.

Now, the issue of aggressive girls is resonating with women of all ages who remember the traumas of some of their early female relationships. Simmons, through her book and appearances, has hit on a national hot topic.

The Rhodes scholar was virtually unknown before her book was released in March -- which is when the Portland nonprofit group Literary Arts scheduled her visit to Benson High, through the Writers in Schools program.

Since then, Simmons has gained a lot of attention: She's made The New York Times best-seller list for the past two weeks, appeared on "Dateline NBC" and was featured twice on "The Oprah Winfrey Show."

"It's totally blindsided me," Simmons said. "I was a 27-year-old first-time author. A month ago I was sitting in my apartment in Brooklyn watching 'Boston Public.' "

But now people are shuttling her between appearances, bringing her meals and offering her their parking spots (as Benson High teacher Judi Potter-Zenn did). And, yes, she does have a publicist and a publisher who both value her youthful aura and want to keep it in check.

"My publisher lives in fear that I'm going to say 'dude' on television," says Simmons, who also uses such phrases as "that's heavy" or "that's intense."

But it's that vernacular and her knack for talking to girls about covert taunting that have helped her click with the younger crowd. As part of researching her book, she talked to 300 girls, including plenty of sobbing ones as young as elementary school age.

Simmons starts out by telling the Benson High girls that when she was 8, her best friend shunned her for no reason. Not only that, that former friend got other girls to shun her, too. Then when Simmons was 14 and in the popular crowd, she stopped talking to a girl because the alpha girl in her clique wanted her to.

With that brief introduction, Simmons hooks the Benson teens. She asks almost all her questions in the third person. That's when girls -- who are socialized to be nice out in the open -- share the most, she later advises a group of Benson teachers.

"Is there a way girls can be mean to each other without talking?" Simmons asks the girls.

"Uh-huh. Oh, yeah," responds a chorus of voices.

"Girls will walk past you and they will bump you just to be mean to you," says Laurice Scott, 16, a sophomore.

"Does the teacher see?" Simmons asks.

"Oh, no," Scott says.

"What if the teacher does see?"

"Then the girl is like, 'Ohhhh, it was nothing. It was an accident. I'm sorrrry.' "

Nicole Washington, 15, a freshman, says some teachers are aware of the manipulations. "A lot of teachers try to help, but kids jump on them," Washington said. "They're like, 'Why are you in my business?' "

The conversation then shifts to the quiet struggle for popularity. Simmons asks the girls if they know of someone who thinks she's "all that." She asks them to describe that girl.

"She wants you to speak first," freshman Camille Elmore, 15, says. "She wants you to be the one to say 'Hi' first in the hall."

Sonia Salais, 15, adds: "They look down on you, like they're so much more superior than you."

Candis Williamson, 15, said commenting on a girl's outfit is one easy way for a girl to try to feel superior.

"They say, 'That's ugly on you. I don't know why you wore that. You need to go take that off.' "

"Do they ever say they were just kidding?" Simmons asks.

"Sometimes," Williamson says. "They say, 'I was just playing.' "

Simmons tells them girls don't act this way because they're evil. They've been socialized to keep their anger bottled up and act in a manipulative way to get what they want. That translates to girls who grow into women who don't want to be friends with other women because they don't trust them.

Simmons, who says she's sick of such cliches as girls are "sugar and spice and all things nice," encourages girls to confront each other with their issues.

"What's so wrong with flipping out?" Simmons asks.

Teacher Dennis Carline, as a supervisor of a dozen students who serve as peer mediators, said he tries to get girls to talk things out. These mediators help other students work out contractual solutions to their problems.

"Ninety percent of our conflicts between students are between girls," Carline says. "I've seen it all -- silent body language, rumors, betrayal. (Simmons) hit that right on the button."

For more information on girl aggression, author Rachel Simmons advises checking out the Ophelia Project, based in Erie, Pa., which aims to create a culture for girls that is emotionally, physically and socially safe. Its Web site is www.opheliaproject.org.
You can reach Aimee Green at 503-294-5969 or by e-mail at aimeegreen@news.oregonian.com.